I think I had the wrong expectations for this talk, so my rating may be ill-placed.
Your talk presented a thourough overview of the CMF, but perhaps lacked some proper code examples (after all, we're developers, this was more of a GUI runthrough). How to extend it, how to implement, ...
If you're giving this talk again, please consider updating it with a more developer hands-on approach, instead of the user-oriented approach. :)
As the commenter before me, I had different expectations. But even as a demo it was not that good in my opinion. The product is awesome, but where was your enthusiasm? You did not keep my attention very well, it was even a bit boring. Also, probably due to questions you tried to answer, the demo was messy. You jumped back and forth, which made it difficult to follow. Sorry for being rather negative, I really do think the product is awesome, and you know it well, but you can give a better presentation than this I'm sure.
I didn't attend the talk, but I have given talks on the CMF a few times alone or with David. One of the tricky challenges we have been facing is how to best get developers interested in the CMF. For a long time the introduction of new concepts like PHPCR and RDFa was met with so much skepticism especially when we didn't have much to show yet. So as we now have stuff to show, we started showing that more in the talks, reducing the time for the under the hood. Maybe we have however now reached a point where our architecture is met with less skepticism and rather more excitement (ie. our architecture is starting to be seen as an advantage rather than an unproven model). So maybe its time we focus our talk again on the architecture and letting people play with the sandbox demo (http://cmf.liip.ch) and their own? Of course it always depends on the people you end up sitting in the audience. Would love to hear the point of view on these considerations from some more people that attend the talk as well as all the people that have commented already. Thanks!
Note: I gave the talk a rating of 3 since I have to give a rating to give a comment.
yeah indeed from this feedback i think next time i will show more code again. the problem though is that once i start with that its difficult to find the right level of detail. in a PHPCR or PHPCR-ODM talk showing code is simple.
but for a CMF talk its really difficult, as mainly in the end users of the cmf will write glue code or small customizations. or then we would really need to get into the details of for example routing, but in 90% of the cases people will probably not need that level of detail to use it and start to think the cmf is very complicated to use in a project. but sure, i will give this some thought and see what could be done.
btw, the PHPCR-ODM slides at http://phpcr.github.com/slides-odm.html have a lot of code samples, as have the PHPCR slides: http://phpcr.github.com/slides.html
Maybe the talk was lacking some structure, I don't know. I also saw this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Y5QPcYWHw&list=FL9LMd20FSxH6JIV-vNex71A and found it much more inviting. Like Mattias said, maybe add more code examples about how to actually build something with it (by using / extending it).
This talk was good, but lacked a bit of structure. I also agree with Mattias on the lack of code examples.
But I'm definitely going to take a better look at the CMF after this talk.
Am I the only one who actually found this talk quite interesting? I found the start not that inviting, but after that I found it very informative. If I know HOW it works, I know what to extend and why particular behavior occurs. That was what this talk provided to me. The overview on the CMF architecture and which Symfony parts you've changed was great to see!
Before this talk I've played with the demo from which you can't see or guess that the code behind it is technically advanced stuff. I've worked with RDF earlier (protein sets) in Bioinformatics, but I've never seen RDF put to work combined with Javascript. That opened my eyes that sometimes I should look further than the 'common' techniques we all use on a daily basis.
CMF really has piqued my interest for a long time as the concept is nice for people who have to re-invent a CMS over and over. But the talk didn't really want me to get started with CMF right away.
You gave a really good overview of how CMF is built and how it differs from vanilla Symfony but the jumping between slides has really killed the presentation for me, you lost me when someone asked a question in the audience and suddenly started explaining something that really should have come at the end.
Next time when someone asks a question don't just jump to the part of the presentation to answer the question but just tell them that their questions will be answered in the presentation later on. Now you really just pleased one person by answering his question but pissed off the rest of the audience :)
As for the content of the talk, not bad but really just too end-user focussed, I would have loved to see a practical usecase of a barebones CMF project or perhaps the implementation behind the demo app.
The topic is interesting in itself but I missed a couple of things. The presentation kind of lacked structure. I think this happened because you answered a question by moving to a different part of your presentation and spending a couple of minutes there before actually answering the question and going back to where you were. I like it if questions get answered real time but this time I think a short wait for the asker would have been better.
The second feedback I would like to give: This was too much a demo for me. I would like to have had a combination of technical solutions and functional results: "see this brilliant technical solution enables this bit of functionality"
I agree with what most of the comments before say: Some more code (it's a dev conference after all) and technical information would have been great. I will definitley keep an eye on the future development of CMF and will probably use it in on project or the other. Also restored my hope for Drupal ;)
I found the presentation pretty good.
My expectations were a bit off, because I hoped for a more in-depth explanation of some of the components. (So more code examples would have suited me as well).
Still heard some new stuff (mainly from other peoples questions), happy I was there.
Comments
Comments are closed.
I think I had the wrong expectations for this talk, so my rating may be ill-placed.
Your talk presented a thourough overview of the CMF, but perhaps lacked some proper code examples (after all, we're developers, this was more of a GUI runthrough). How to extend it, how to implement, ...
If you're giving this talk again, please consider updating it with a more developer hands-on approach, instead of the user-oriented approach. :)
Good talk. Really hope you guys get a stable version out soon. Some code examples would be nice, like the previous commenter points out.
As the commenter before me, I had different expectations. But even as a demo it was not that good in my opinion. The product is awesome, but where was your enthusiasm? You did not keep my attention very well, it was even a bit boring. Also, probably due to questions you tried to answer, the demo was messy. You jumped back and forth, which made it difficult to follow. Sorry for being rather negative, I really do think the product is awesome, and you know it well, but you can give a better presentation than this I'm sure.
I didn't attend the talk, but I have given talks on the CMF a few times alone or with David. One of the tricky challenges we have been facing is how to best get developers interested in the CMF. For a long time the introduction of new concepts like PHPCR and RDFa was met with so much skepticism especially when we didn't have much to show yet. So as we now have stuff to show, we started showing that more in the talks, reducing the time for the under the hood. Maybe we have however now reached a point where our architecture is met with less skepticism and rather more excitement (ie. our architecture is starting to be seen as an advantage rather than an unproven model). So maybe its time we focus our talk again on the architecture and letting people play with the sandbox demo (http://cmf.liip.ch) and their own? Of course it always depends on the people you end up sitting in the audience. Would love to hear the point of view on these considerations from some more people that attend the talk as well as all the people that have commented already. Thanks!
Note: I gave the talk a rating of 3 since I have to give a rating to give a comment.
yeah indeed from this feedback i think next time i will show more code again. the problem though is that once i start with that its difficult to find the right level of detail. in a PHPCR or PHPCR-ODM talk showing code is simple.
but for a CMF talk its really difficult, as mainly in the end users of the cmf will write glue code or small customizations. or then we would really need to get into the details of for example routing, but in 90% of the cases people will probably not need that level of detail to use it and start to think the cmf is very complicated to use in a project. but sure, i will give this some thought and see what could be done.
btw, the PHPCR-ODM slides at http://phpcr.github.com/slides-odm.html have a lot of code samples, as have the PHPCR slides: http://phpcr.github.com/slides.html
Maybe the talk was lacking some structure, I don't know. I also saw this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Y5QPcYWHw&list=FL9LMd20FSxH6JIV-vNex71A and found it much more inviting. Like Mattias said, maybe add more code examples about how to actually build something with it (by using / extending it).
This talk was good, but lacked a bit of structure. I also agree with Mattias on the lack of code examples.
But I'm definitely going to take a better look at the CMF after this talk.
Am I the only one who actually found this talk quite interesting? I found the start not that inviting, but after that I found it very informative. If I know HOW it works, I know what to extend and why particular behavior occurs. That was what this talk provided to me. The overview on the CMF architecture and which Symfony parts you've changed was great to see!
Before this talk I've played with the demo from which you can't see or guess that the code behind it is technically advanced stuff. I've worked with RDF earlier (protein sets) in Bioinformatics, but I've never seen RDF put to work combined with Javascript. That opened my eyes that sometimes I should look further than the 'common' techniques we all use on a daily basis.
CMF really has piqued my interest for a long time as the concept is nice for people who have to re-invent a CMS over and over. But the talk didn't really want me to get started with CMF right away.
You gave a really good overview of how CMF is built and how it differs from vanilla Symfony but the jumping between slides has really killed the presentation for me, you lost me when someone asked a question in the audience and suddenly started explaining something that really should have come at the end.
Next time when someone asks a question don't just jump to the part of the presentation to answer the question but just tell them that their questions will be answered in the presentation later on. Now you really just pleased one person by answering his question but pissed off the rest of the audience :)
As for the content of the talk, not bad but really just too end-user focussed, I would have loved to see a practical usecase of a barebones CMF project or perhaps the implementation behind the demo app.
The topic is interesting in itself but I missed a couple of things. The presentation kind of lacked structure. I think this happened because you answered a question by moving to a different part of your presentation and spending a couple of minutes there before actually answering the question and going back to where you were. I like it if questions get answered real time but this time I think a short wait for the asker would have been better.
The second feedback I would like to give: This was too much a demo for me. I would like to have had a combination of technical solutions and functional results: "see this brilliant technical solution enables this bit of functionality"
I agree with what most of the comments before say: Some more code (it's a dev conference after all) and technical information would have been great. I will definitley keep an eye on the future development of CMF and will probably use it in on project or the other. Also restored my hope for Drupal ;)
I found the presentation pretty good.
My expectations were a bit off, because I hoped for a more in-depth explanation of some of the components. (So more code examples would have suited me as well).
Still heard some new stuff (mainly from other peoples questions), happy I was there.